Holcomb & Horvitz

This interview with Robin Holcomb and Wayne Horvitz was conducted by email during September 2004.

Tony Reif: You two have collaborated many times over the years but I think this is the first record where you’ve had equal billing, and Wayne it’s also your first solo piano record, although Robin you did a record for Nonesuch (Little Three) that was largely solo piano. When planning Solos, did you talk much about what you wanted to do, or did you just come to the session with chops honed and a bunch of tunes to see what would happen? After the session you whittled down a lot of material to an hour-long record. How did you come up with the final sequence? Did you pretty much see eye to eye or was there a fair bit of negotiation on what to include and how to give the record a satisfying arc?

Wayne Horvitz: Yes, this is definitely the first CD together with equal billing, and the odd thing is that it isn’t really together since we are both playing solo. We didn’t plan together much, we did think about doing each other’s music a bit, and talked through a few tune ideas but basically just planned individually what we wanted to get on tape. When it came time to pick takes I got things organized and got rid of obvious false starts etc., but the selection process we each did for our own tunes. As for the sequence Robin did most of that up to a point and then we got together on it for the final decisions. It was also at this point that we cut a bit so the CD wouldn’t be too long.

Robin Holcomb: We ended up editing out all the versions we did of each other’s pieces. I did discover a lovely piece of Wayne’s in the bottom of a box in our basement which he had forgotten all about, but alas, this one too wasn’t included in the final sequence. We had little preliminary discussion of repertoire, both planned to do some improvisations. We do share a harmonic language and it was challenging coming up with a final sequence for the record that kept moving along – it took a lot of listening and experimenting. In the end, we liked the length of the record, although we did have to forfeit a lot of takes…making a double disc set would have been easier to sequence, I think.

TR: Wayne, in your notes you mention that you and Robin have deeply influenced each other’s music. Nevertheless there are certainly many differences in your piano sound, melodic and harmonic language, improvisational approaches, etc., to the extent that it might not be that easy I think for a listener familiar with both of your musics to mistake one for the other here in a blindfold test. Could you talk a bit about how your musical rapport has deepened with time, but also where your musical interests continue to diverge (if they do)? What was it like improvising on pieces composed by the other (and how was it that none of those takes made the final cut)?

WH: Without question we have very different sounds and techniques, our training and backgrounds are different, although at the time that we first met and also became involved in musical projects together we were both very influenced by Cecil Taylor (pianistically) and all the music coming out of the AACM, BAG, and the so-called “free jazz” scene. Also Keith Jarrett and Chick Corea etc. were very much in the air. As improvisors both of us share a sort of two-handed approach à la Cecil. Also we were being introduced to the music of Messiaen and John Cage and many other contemporary composers and hearing the connections between all those musics. Unlike Robin, however, I also have a more single-note “linear” approach that comes from playing jazz at various times in my life.

RH: I have to say that during the course of sequencing the recording I was fooled a few times. I think that we often sound more than a little like each other, especially on the more reflective pieces. There are some clear differences – I am willfully ignorant of the harmonic structures in my music, whereas Wayne is more conscious of that sort of thing when he chooses to be. I think that we have more in common melodically and harmonically than we do in terms of timing and development (storytelling).

WH: The pieces that we did cover of each other were actually very nice. In the end we just felt that they didn’t serve the flow of the final sequence as much as other pieces that we had picked.

TR: As pianists, how do each of you relate to your (ideal) instrument in terms of touch, dynamics, pedaling, etc.? We recorded on a Steinway D in a small concert hall, but finding good pianos (and acoustics/PA systems) when touring can be a problem. What does a piano absolutely have to have to make your music sing?

WH: Well fortunately I do a lot of touring in Europe, and for the most part the pianos range from very good to great. Both Robin and I tend to like pianos with deep key beds and a slightly heavy action and plenty of bass – a darker sound in general, although if I am playing with bass and drums sometimes a brighter piano can come in handy. It is hard to be more specific, it is just one of those things where once in a while you sit down at a piano that has it all, and it is very inspiring. Not just in terms of playing, but if opportunity allows a great piano is an enormous inspiration to me as a composer as well.

RH: That was a lovely piano at UBC. My piano at home is an old, crotchety Steinway upright which we bought in New York. It had been in a school, and is covered in penciled graffiti – it has a lot of visual and audible personality – lots of creaks and sighs. Although I write almost all of my music on this instrument, I greatly prefer a Steinway grand piano for performances – I like to be able to look off into the distance, I guess.

TR: Still on the topic of similarities and differences, how would you describe your own and each other’s music in terms of its emotional qualities and the styles, techniques or references that particularly resonate for each of you? Have those influences or inspirations changed much over the years?

WH: They haven’t changed much over the years.

RH: We share a wide range of interests and influences. I entered the world of jazz very late in its history with the exuberant improvising of “free jazz” whereas Wayne is much more familiar with earlier jazz forms. I have played more early American folk music and Indonesian music. We seem to both be mesmerized by the harmonic language of hymns, for no particular reason. We are both drawn to the bittersweet in both melody and harmony – I find that Wayne’s pieces have more of a “yanking” quality to them – a lovely melody will get “yanked” into a deeply bittersweet moment which then shimmers throughout the music. I think that my pieces may be more melancholy overall.

WH: Neither of us are particularly interested in post modern trends, irony, music that is smart for smart’s sake. It was Robin who first pointed out how stunning Aretha’s intro to “You Send Me” was even though I had heard it a million times. We have a tendency to go back and listen to things we’ve loved for a long time. A Skip James tune, one tune on Keith Jarrett’s Facing You, Art Ensemble tracks, a Ligetti étude or that Bob Dylan or dare I say it Grateful Dead tune I just need to hear again, or Elliott Smith or Nirvana. Of course there are hundreds more, but the point is we do seem to look for the same things in music. Robin played a lot of gamelan music in college and although she didn’t stick with it I think we both tend to be drawn to music that is more about the whole than the virtuosic individual voice. That being said, like any musicians we both enjoy hearing someone with fantastic chops, especially if they find pleasure in it all. It even seems to be moving on to our kids. Our daughter Nica put this Aimee Mann track on a CD she burned for me and I’ve always liked Aimee Mann alright but it wasn’t changing my life, but this one tune just slayed me on every level and I played it over and over and then I mentioned it to Robin and she had heard it too and had the same reaction. Who knows, it’s not like we always agree in the rest of life, far from it!!!

TR: What plans do you have for touring and developing this music further (either as solo piano, or conceivably in a duo or trio chamber jazz format)?

WH: We have tour plans for Europe and the States. We might do a tune or two together, but mostly just share the bill as we do on the CD. Since Robin is also a wonderful singer we can do some things together that way. I’d love to do 2-piano music some day but that is a whole other can of worms.